Podcast: Elle Jackson shares what an effective youth justice system looks like for Victoria
Victorians will vote in a state election on Saturday, 26 November.
Every election is important, and this one comes as many Victorians continue to experience hardship and disadvantage.
The current government has enacted a range of important reforms that work towards reducing inequality – like stronger support for kids leaving out-of-home care, and a new youth justice framework that will give young people the support they need to turn their lives around – but there’s more to be done.
For 45 years, Jesuit Social Services, the organisation Worth A Second Chance, has delivered services and advocated to drive positive social change in Victoria.
This election is no different.
We recently released our election platform, which is a blueprint for a social change agenda for Victoria, offering recommendations for reform across a range of interconnected social policy areas, including youth justice.
Jesuit Social Services Policy Manager – Victoria, Elle Jackson, shares what a fair, effective and humane youth justice system for Victoria involves, how our next government could get us there, and the positive impact this reform would have on the lives of young people in trouble, their families, and our whole community.
And you can keep scrolling to read the full transcript of this conversation.
Sophie Raynor
Welcome to the Worth A Second Chance podcast, where we explore true stories, challenges and solutions from the frontlines of Australia's youth justice systems. My name is Sophie Raynor.
Victorians will vote in a state election this Saturday. Every election is important, and this one comes as many Victorians continue to experience hardship and disadvantage, which have been exacerbated by COVID-19 and the climate crisis. The current government has enacted a range of important reforms that work towards reducing inequality – like stronger support for kids leaving out-of-home care, and a new youth justice framework that will give young people the support they need to turn their lives around… but there’s more to be done.
Jesuit Social Services is the organisation behind Worth A Second Chance, and for 45 years we’ve delivered services and advocated to drive positive social change in Victoria. This election is no different.
Elle Jackson
This election is so important to progressing the gains Victoria has made so far. It’s a chance for us to stand alongside marginalised young people, and make sure our next government commits to creating inclusion and opportunity for them.
Sophie Raynor
Elle Jackson is our policy manager for Victoria. Her team recently released our election platform, which is a blueprint for a social change agenda for Victoria, offering recommendations for reform across a range of interconnected social policy areas. Criminal justice is one of those.
Today, Elle shares what a fair, effective and humane youth justice system for Victoria involves… how our next government could get us there… and the positive impact this reform would have on the lives of young people in trouble, their families, and our whole community.
Hi, Elle. I want to start right at the beginning and ask you – what is this election platform document we’re talking about, and why is it important?
Elle Jackson
It's a great question, Sophie. So, an election platform document brings together an organisation's key asks and policy work for the things that we would like to see the next government commit to. An election platform essentially provides a range of research areas and pieces of an organisation's vision and mission. And so for us, that brings together our vision of creating a just society for all Victorians. So it includes key areas of policy focus across youth justice, gender, justice, climate justice, settlement and community building, education and training, and makes recommendations as to what we'd like to see the government do, whoever gets in later this year, to see the outcomes that we would like for all Victorians across those key policy areas.
Sophie Raynor
And so you mentioned that our election platform; Jesuit Social Services’ election platform, covers a range of different areas of our programming and advocacy. And obviously, the one that's most interesting to Worth A Second Chance is the area of the platform that's about youth justice. So again, I'll ask you, you’re the expert, not only from a policy perspective, but because you for a long time worked as a practitioner and manager on Jesuit Social Services’ justice programs before moving into our policy team. So, before we got into the specifics of our election platform, I wanted to ask you in a general sense: can you set the scene for us of the current state of youth justice in Victoria?
Elle Jackson
So, we know that for a long time, Victoria led the way in youth justice. We were seen as a progressive state that was making good decisions, following an evidence base about what works for young people, both young people who are at risk of contact with the justice system, but also those who are already in contact with it. But then, slowly, but surely, over the last decade, we've seen a real move away from that – we've seen more punitive responses to young people involved in the youth justice system, and a move away from the evidence base. And often what we're seeing is young people returning time and time again, to places of custody and involvement with the justice system in a more entrenched way, which we also know then leads as a pipeline to the adult justice system. And something that we're seeing, certainly in our conversation today talking about Victoria. But you know, when we look at Victoria as part of the national piece around youth justice at the moment, we know that across the country, youth justice is crying out for attention. And we know nationally that kids involved in the justice system require sophisticated, evidence-based approaches to give them the best opportunity to reach their full potential.
Sophie Raynor
It's worth noting that we're recording this conversation the day after the Four Corners report on Australia's failing youth justice system. So that brings this issue – which was already a really important thing for us to focus on, for our governments to focus their energies and resources on – really to the fore, making this an even more relevant issue for Victorians going to the polls on the 26th of November.
So, speaking about those issues, I want to go to the document of our election platform and look at the specific areas in which, Elle, you and your team have made recommendations. So, this election platform divides our recommendations into a few different areas. And the first area that I want to talk about, like I want to deep dive into, is legislative changes. So the question to you is, what are some of the laws that could be changed, or the new laws that could be introduced to tackle some of those problems and to address the failings of the systems that we've just spoken about?
Elle Jackson
Such a great question, Sophie, and certainly one of the most important pieces of legislative reform that comes to mind is raising the age of criminal responsibility from 10 to 14 years.
We know that Victoria, along with states nationally, have an age of criminal responsibility that's set at 10 years old. That's a child in grade four. We know that the United Nations Committee of the Rights of the Child, along with key medical bodies, researchers, social change organisations, Aboriginal community controlled organisations, and other leaders, have been calling for the age to be raised to 14 for a really long time. And that's really important to say that's in line with an evidence base, you know, we know that children under 14 do not have capacity to take responsibility for their actions, that their brains are still developing, and that they're going through a really key stage of development. And we know that there's can be a range of other responses instead of a criminal justice response that can support those children to get back on the right track.
Another really important piece of legislative reform that we would like to see change in this term of government is repelling the presumption against dual track; we want to see that young people have access to the dual track system. So for those who aren't aware of dual track, that's about having an opportunity for young people aged up to – we would say, we would like to have 25 – dual track available to young people until the age of 25, to still be dealt with and supported under the youth justice system instead of the adult system, where it currently sits. And part of youth justice, I guess, diversion away from really effective practice has been the erosions made to dual track over the last 10 years. And we would really like to see that change and fully reinstated; the age to be extended up to 25.
We'd like to see home detention reintroduced, as well as suspended sentences and repelling really horrible changes that were made to the Bail Act in the last four years. And what that meant is that we've seen a record number of children and young people held on remand in our youth justice centers, and they’re children and young people that haven't actually been found guilty of a charge as such yet. So they’re young people that are taken away from their families and communities and held in a place of custody, that we know increases their risk of future contact with the justice system.
So, they would be certainly some of the key areas of legislative reform that we would like to see change in. But overall, what we would like to see with work underway on a new Youth Justice Act, what we want to see within that I guess is a whole-of-system vision for the way children and young people are responded to in in within the justice system, but to have a system that actually strengthens and prioritises diversion at every possible opportunity. So diverting children and young people away from the system, and importantly, to making sure that detention is only ever used as a last resort, you know, we shouldn't be seeing children and young people ending up in detention as a first response, you know, to involvement in the justice system that needs to be so far along the continuum that we've actually tried to engage and support young people in a range of different areas to address their needs and lead into contact with the justice system instead of just ending up directly in detention. And whenever children and young people that then do end up in detention, that needs to be a place that is absolutely trauma-informed with adequately skilled and trained staff in small and home-like facilities, where young people actually have access to supports and interventions to address the underlying issues around their offending. And with really strengthened transitional support pathways to provide that post-release support so that young people have the best possible opportunity to desist from offending.
Sophie Raynor
And so there's quite a bit in there. And I reckon we'll move through that a little bit slowly, because I'm really interested in you know, what does it mean to have a rehabilitative prison environment? What does it mean to give someone good support as they transition out of a custodial setting and return to their life and the community. But that point that you just made about using detention as a last resort, that's something that's really interesting to me, and the way that you were just talking about diverting young people away from the prison system, I think the question that sort of instinctively comes to my mind is: young people who find themselves in prison have made mistakes and have done the wrong thing. So how can we ensure that… how can Victoria ensure that those people are still held accountable for their actions and they still know that what they've done is the wrong thing, and they're still responded to appropriately, but without using prison.
Elle Jackson
So really great question, Sophie. And we know that there's a range of different ways, and a range of different programs and approaches that we can utilise to support young people who are coming into contact with the justice system and who may be ending up in detention. And an approach that we use at Jesuit Social Services through our programs is using a restorative and relational approach. But a particular example of that would be our Youth Justice Group Conferencing program that operates both in Victoria and the Northern Territory. That's a program that focuses on bringing together a young person with the person that's been impacted by harm, so that the victim of their offending, to come together in a dialogue with key community members and support people to talk about the harm that's occurred, and to hear from the victim on how that's impacted on them with a view to making a plan for the future, so that the young person can actually move away from offending and then towards supports that can support them to reach their full potential.
So, we know that restorative justice approaches like group conferencing are an opportunity for young people to be held accountable for their actions. But it's doing that in a way that a young person can understand and can learn from, when we know that detention doesn't achieve that. And we see that by the statistics around repeated offending from young people that exit detention and approaches like group conferencing provide not only young people, but also people that are impacted by crime. So victims have an opportunity to have a voice in the criminal justice process that they don't usually get. We know that traditionally, our adversarial approach to justice means that victims are unseen and unheard. And group conference actually provides an opportunity for victims to have a really central voice in that process, and to have an opportunity to talk to a young person to explain how the harm has impacted on them. But also we hear from victims about what they want for young people for the future. You know, I've been in group conferences where victims speak with young people about wanting them to re-engage in school and to do well, who offer to provide them with mentoring support or to engage them in recreational activities. And often we hear that for victims, that process is really therapeutic and cathartic, because it's actually the first time they've been heard, you know, they're not heard through the police and court process, but they are heard through a process like a group conference, another approach that can be taken with young people.
And I guess one of the words that I've used before is, you know, diversion, you know, and what actually is diversion. And so diversion is an approach or a program really, that ultimately aims to address the underlying causes of the young person's offending. So that could be the disengagement challenges at school, it could be their family is experiencing some difficulties and it's hard for young person to be at home, it could be that we know the vast majority of young people have been exposed to trauma. So diversionary programs actually support young people to link in with other services to address those needs, before future contact with the justice system occurs. And often what we find, a lot of the research tells us that for the young person that's engaged in a diversion program, there's much less likelihood of that young person going on to further offending because the causes of their offending are being addressed. And you know, we see then, young people going on to live lives where they have the potential to thrive instead of ending up in places like detention, which we know just put young people on track to keep further offending.
Sophie Raynor
The question that I wanted to ask you about diversion programs that you mentioned, that young people can connect with services and things that can help them, you know, address the underlying causes of their offending. And I guess the example that I sort of imagined, as you were saying I know from the annual report of Victoria's Youth Parole Board, they do a survey every year, as you know, a demographic survey, and in that they say something like 90% of the young people in detention have used or abused alcohol or other drugs and 50% of the young people in detention in Victoria, their offending happened under the influence. So automatically, my mind went to like, is alcohol and drug counselling or connection or something an example of the of the diversion programs that you're talking about?
Elle Jackson
Absolutely. I think that as part of a diversion program, a young person could be engaged in a range of different supports, and certainly drug and alcohol counselling, with detox or residential rehabilitation can be one of those things, and we know that, you know, in order to address those underlying causes that are driving drug and alcohol use, and often that's about responding to and coping with trauma, that actually, you know, engaging in therapeutic counselling can be one of the ways that can support young people to develop alternative coping strategies and to address the drug and alcohol use that might be really closely linked to their to their offending and to provide actually some education, you know, around what harms can be associated with drug and alcohol use, as well. And certainly, I think it's really important to consider young people like a really holistic view of a young person, isn't it, you know that actually young people aren't just operating in silos with siloed issues, often what we're seeing is that there, there can be a range of different things going on. For a young person that's impacting their contact with the justice system. I often say, you know, I guess contact with the justice system isn't… it’s not on any developmental milestone chart anywhere, you know, for childhood development, like it's an adverse childhood experience. And so it's something that is not what we're recognising as a normal, you know, in quotation marks, experience for a child or young person to go through. So, that that really needs to cause concern for us, you know: what is actually happening in that young person's life that’s seeing them come to the attention of police. So to say they're involved in youth justice system, and actually then working backwards to understand the young person and their full experience in a holistic way, and then supporting them to address those issues that might be coming up for them, whether it be drug and alcohol use, or challenges at school, or challenges at home, or trauma, all of those things that we know can be those underlying factors. And it can also be, you know, we also know that young people with disabilities are over-represented in the criminal justice system. So also making sure that young people have access to the right supports and supports that they're entitled to, it's really important as well.
Sophie Raynor
Yeah, absolutely. And that's something that I wanted to ask about the issue of trauma, but also that sort of point of normalcy, the principle of normalcy, which maybe I’ll lead you to now, because, you know, I understand that it's Jesuit Social Services’ position that for a very small number of young people, detention maybe is the appropriate response. So I want to talk about the conditions of those young people's detention, and how, if it's, you know, if the person entering a detention facility is a person who has experienced trauma in their life, how do we ensure that the design and operation of that facility operate in a way so as to not be retraumatising to that young person; to not further exacerbate the trauma that they've already been through? And for the setup of such facility, to sort of ensure a young person inside has as much hope for rehabilitation and a normal life back in the community as they possibly can after time in detention?
So the question is, we do understand that for a very small number of young people detention is the appropriate response. And for the young people in Victoria, who do go into detention, we've got two youth justice facilities: ne is at Parkville, in the city’s north, and the other is at Malmsbury, which is about 100km north-west of Melbourne. And there's a third under construction at Cherry Creek in the state’s west. What is Jesuit Social Services saying about those facilities? And I guess the question there is, how can the prisons work to best support young people?
Sophie Raynor
No, it's a really great question, Sophie. And I think from the outset, at Jesuit Social Services, we were really clear that we don't need a new youth justice facility at Cherry Creek, like building a mega-centre for young people, children and young people, is not what we need, and ourselves, along with many colleagues in the sector, have really advocated for that facility to be, again designed therapeutically, and to be built around the evidence base around what we know works for young people. And so certainly what we've been calling for is making sure that Cherry Creek, the new youth justice facility, is a place of small home-like units designed to support young people to successfully reintegrate into the community. And that was based on what some of our leaders in our organisations saw on their #JusticeSolutions study to New Zealand, in America and Europe, that actually, places of custody should be as close to home for young people as possible. And they should be designed like small, home-like facilities that actually still promote inclusion in their community as well. We know that within, then, youth justice centres, we need really, really skilled, qualified and trained staff to work with young people – we're talking about, you know, some of the most vulnerable children and young people in our community that require the most sophisticated and professional approach. So we need to make sure that we're supporting staff that are working in those centers to do that really important work, we're making sure that we're recruiting the right staff with the right qualifications, who know how to engage with young people therapeutically, and to use restorative approaches as well.
We also know the programs in detention centers are really important. So at Cherry Creek and Malmsbury and Parkville, the things we're calling for are really evidence-based and trauma-informed programs that are also culturally safe for children and young people in over-representative groups. So Aboriginal Torres Strait Islander children and young people, young people from minority communities, and again, we really want to see those relationships have a restorative focus and providing opportunities for young people to learn in a way that they can… learn in a way that works for them really, and that also has a focus on again, transition and reintegration. And really having that embedded Part of the model overall for children and young people in in those facilities.
It's really important to highlight as well, the really diverse experience for girls and young women and young people identifying as female in the system and how different that is to the experiences of young men. And we know that girls and young women, we really need to see a gender-specific response to those groups of young people; we need to see staffing led by female staff, and again, to have a really range of gender-responsive programs that operate in those facilities, and then post-release support as well, for that cohort of young people.
Sophie Raynor
There are two things in there that I want to ask you more about. One is specific support for over-represented groups in the justice system. And the other is that transitional support that you were just mentioning. So I think I'll start with the transitional support, because we've just been talking about what was happening inside prisons. So now it seems like a pretty intuitive step to go, okay, we're preparing for, you know, someone said to me, once, ideally, planning for a person's reintegration back into the community, their transition back to the community after prison should start on the first day that they enter the detention facility – everything about their experience, as you said, in that prison should gear them towards a successful transition back to life in their community.
So, we know that the young people who do go into detention facilities are obviously going to come out at some point. And as you mentioned before, we see really, really high rates of reoffending for young people who leave prison – I think the statistic in Victoria is something like 80% of young people will reoffend within two years after leaving detention. So, statistically, the majority of them are very, very likely to reoffend and go back inside. And so that, to me, says that the prison isn't working to stop their bad behaviour; it is not effective, it is not doing the job that it's designed to do. And I know that our Jesuit Social Services election platform has some suggestions for better support or intervention, that could ease that transition, make a person's return to the community, you know, a safer and more positive experience. And that improves the quality of their life and the outcomes for the young person, but also reduces the likelihood of their reoffending, which ultimately makes the whole community more safe. Keen to hear about that. What can you tell me about our recommendations for transition support?
Elle Jackson
And I love that point, Sophie, that you made, that someone else has spoken to you actually about that transition begins, the moment someone enters custody is the moment someone enters a youth detention centre or prison. That's when we should be starting transition planning. And that is that is so pivotal, important, you know, we know that actually a period of time in custody, no matter how long or how short, is harmful for children and young people. So it's really incredibly important that we actually have the future focus on transition and reintegration planning from the get go.
I think the other really important thing to say about transitioning reintegration is that it’s a journey, you know, it's sort of, it's a continuum that almost has like no start and no end, that's different for every single young person that comes through the system. And it's going to be leaving detention. And what that means is we need programs like our Youth Justice Community Support Service, for example, that goes in and meets with young people, builds relationships and helps young people plan for their release well before that time, then that then provides long-term outreach support for young people to achieve the goals that they have around their transition, post-release in the community. And we really want to see the Justice Community Support Service expanded so that we can support every young person that leaves detention. You know, transitional support is a basic human right and should be seen as a basic human right for children and young people leaving prison. It's unacceptable, that at the moment, not every young person gets that support. And we really want that to see that happen.
We also, really one of the things that we've been talking about and had considered in the development of our election platform is some really innovative work that's happening in the adult justice space that we think can really be brought to the youth justice space. And so that's about for us, we'd like to see investment in a dedicated, small, transitional supported housing model that's based on the Maribyrnong Community Residential Facility that Corrections Victoria have been operating in partnership with Jesuit Social Services, particularly for young people that are on a supervised youth justice order or parole without access to housing, because we know that housing can be actually a key barrier for young people post-release. And it's often the reason that young people stay in custody because they actually don't have anywhere to go post-release, which is also really completely unacceptable. So we'd really like to see investment made in a small transitional facility modelled on that the program that's happening in Maribyrnong.
We know that young people need access to supported housing and living programs so that they can also develop those independent living skills during that transitional time as well. And again, helping young people to build those connections in the community too, so they're the things we'd really like to see to strengthen the transitional support for young people that are returning to the community. So that really the fact that, you know, 80% like you said of young people return to contact with the justice system after release from custody is completely unacceptable. And we really feel like investment in transitional support, whether that be case management or housing, both of those things are really, really important to change that statistic.
Sophie Raynor
And I want to ask you a lot more about that case management through the Youth Justice Community Support Service that you just mentioned. But I also wanted to flag that on episode four of this series of the Worth A Second Chance podcast, we spoke to Kane Apelu, who's another colleague of ours at Jesuit Social Services. And in the conversation that I had with him, I mentioned that 12% of people leaving youth detention in Australia will seek help from a homelessness service. And as adults, those people become twice as likely to have slept rough or slept in squats. So there's a very, very clear and very troubling link between youth homelessness and contact with the criminal justice system. So that's really interesting and sobering to hear you mention… it's really heartening to hear it’s in the election platform.
The Youth Justice Community Support Service is another program that was mentioned on this podcast in episode two we spoke with Jes Wikaira, who is cultural worker on that program…
Jes Wikaira
You know, you're already working with a dislocated minority. So, if you're talking about Aboriginal, First Nations, and you're talking about Maori Pasifika and CALD communities, they already come from a historic view of colonisation; assimilation. And so those factors are already built in where there's been a loss of the culture. And so you've got that condensed also with coming into the youth justice system. And working against that mainstream..
Sophie Raynor
We can see in the data about people leaving detention, as you mentioned, there's a significant over-representation of people from culturally and linguistically diverse communities in the justice system – it's around 40%. And that's one of the reasons why the program has workers like Jes. And then in addition to that, as you've mentioned, in the platform, there's also an over-representation in the justice system of young people who have been involved with the out-of-home care system. And we've had another episode of the podcast about that as well – when we spoke to Victoria's Children's Commissioner Liana Buchanan. In episode three, she told us around 50% of kids in detention in Victoria have been subjected to a child protection order…
Liana Buchanan
The picture, then, that you have is number one, we're criminalising trauma. We are responding to children with the trauma background, again, whose behaviour and whose capacity to regulate their own behaviour, whose brain development, has been affected by trauma and maltreatment. We are responding to those children by sending them into youth justice custody; by criminalising them.
Sophie Raynor
That's a pretty stark picture. And I'd like to ask you about both groups at the same time, because it seems to me like there's a common thread between the two of them. Can you tell me what we're recommending to reduce the over-representation of those historically marginalised groups in the justice system?
Elle Jackson
Thanks, Sophie. Another really great question. So I think it's really important to acknowledge from the outset that, particularly for the over-representation of Aboriginal children and young people in the youth justice system that we know that is driven by the ongoing impacts of colonisation and continued policy impacts and decisions that disproportionately impact Aboriginal children, young people and communities still today. Gosh, for eternity, Aboriginal people and Aboriginal community controlled organisations have been leading the advocacy and work to really call for decisions and programs and funding that they need for their communities. And we believe that it's incredibly important that Aboriginal community controlled organisations are sufficiently resourced with really meaningful and long-term funding to deliver support to children and young people, Aboriginal children and young people involved in the justice system across that continuum. So you know, we're talking about diversion, to pre-court to detention to post-release, Aboriginal community controlled organisations are best-placed to lead and deliver services to Aboriginal children and young people. And we really want to see these organisations sufficiently resourced, with meaningful resourcing to do that.
One of the other things that we would really like to see happen is that the recommendations of the Our Youth Our Way inquiry into the over-incarceration of Aboriginal people in Victoria be fully implemented; we know that that is a really landmark report and making recommendations that can have meaningful change in reducing the over-representation of Aboriginal children and young people in the criminal justice system. And we really want to see the recommendations of that inquiry resourced in their entirety, as well for the over-representation of children and young people from culturally and linguistically diverse communities. It's really similar. We want to see those services provided to those young people been provided by organisations and groups that are community-led, that are led by those communities, and staff from those communities that really understand, connect with, and partner… embedded in those communities with young people and their families. And again, recognising that each young person requires a unique response in a service system that needs to respond to meet their needs. So, it's not up to a young person to fit in with services that don't work for them, it's actually up to us to provide the services that do and that they need and the communities are calling for.
Sophie Raynor
And that seems exactly the sort of theme or heartline of this election platform that we've been talking about today. I wanted to zoom out again, because I think you and I have just spoken about every one of those areas that I flagged in the election platform relating to youth justice, and covered all of Jesuit Social Services’ recommendations for reform to Victoria's youth justice system, ahead of the election on Saturday the 26th of November. But something that we've spoken a lot about on this podcast is the idea that there are complex and compounding factors like disadvantage and trauma and self-confidence, which can all play a role in a young person becoming at higher risk of offending and of becoming involved in the criminal justice system. So I want to zoom out, again, beyond our specific recommendations for youth justice reform, and ask you what else is needed to happen in Victoria for this state to be a place where young people are supported and included and have opportunity.
Elle Jackson
So, Jesuit Social Services for a long time has been involved in long-term research about complex disadvantage and place-based approaches. So one of the overarching recommendations that we're calling for is that we would really like the Victorian Government and the incoming government to identify locations of complex disadvantaged through the Dropping off the Edge research that we've been involved in, and actually see long-term place-based and systemic approaches in those areas developed, and that there's at the centre of that, to have community decision-making at the heart of it.
Again, we need communities that are impacted by these long-term and systemic factors that we're talking about, again, are best-placed to know what they what they need. And those approaches really need to be community-led. And so in order to address factors that lead to inequity and disadvantage, community decision-making needs to be at the centre.
In terms of for young people specifically, and again, the recommendations we talk about, although we're talking about young people, today actually have overarching meaning for everyone in our community, really. One of the other things we'd like to see is to help people that are facing barriers to employment by continuing both the Jobs Victoria Employment Services initiative, and the Jobs Victoria Advocates Program beyond 2023, when that funding is due to continue, to help people find jobs and keep people in jobs.
We would like to see at least 60,000 public and community homes available by 2032, with links support and protections as well. We know that housing, as we're talking about, is such an incredibly important systemic factor that can lead to contact with the justice system, and repeated contact. So we would really like to see investment in more sustainable public and community housing available as well.
One of the other really important things is something like 91% of young people involved in the justice system are young men. So we really recognise again, as I mentioned before, the need for a gendered response to young women, and we also really need a response to young men that are getting into trouble and causing trouble. So, drawing on our Modelling Respect and Equality program, and the Unpacking the Man Box workshops that Jesuit Social Services has now run for some time, we really want to see workforce capacity building training for role models who work with men and boys in a range of settings. So places like schools, youth justice facilities, prisons, sports clubs and community health services to prevent the use of violence. So there's some of the really key areas that we think as a community investments really important in to create outcomes that are meaningful, not only for young people, but for all Victorians.
Sophie Raynor
Yeah, fantastic. And it's something that again, on another episode of the Worth A Second Chance podcast, we spoke with Sanne Oostermeijer, who's a researcher who looks at the built design of prisons and how they can reduce a person's risk of reoffending. And one of the things that she was speaking about was the idea of relational security… and the point that you just made about working with people who are role models to men and boys in settings that could include custodial settings – maybe if there's a relationship of sort of respect and equality between a person in a position of authority in a prison setting and an incarcerated person, that feeds into this idea of relational security that Sanne was articulating in… two episodes ago, in the eighth episode of the podcast, and that's a way that you can maintain decorum and security inside a detention facility without resorting to violence.
Elle Jackson
Oh, absolutely. I think so. We know that relationships are central to our well-being in life generally, right; like as human beings, relationships and connection so important to us. And that's not dissimilar then for children and young people in youth justice facilities or youth justice centers or who are involved in the youth justice system. I think relationships between, for example, like you referenced young people and staff, there's such an opportunity for that to be a platform for meaningful change; relationships that are modelled on respect and understanding and hearing and listening from each other. And that can actually role model what relationships should look like for young people in the future, relationships that are safe, well-boundaried, with grounded rather in support, and understanding and guidance.
Sophie Raynor
Elle, you've given us a really comprehensive picture there of some of the things that need to happen to make Victoria's youth justice system more fair, and compassionate and effective. And I can see that there's evidence behind them; these aren't just thought bubbles, they're actual, real changes that could be made right now. So with that in mind, I wanted to ask you a tricky question now. Can you prioritise some of those recommendations for me, you know, in January, when our next government is back from their holidays, and they're raring to go – what are the most urgent and practical three reforms they could start with?
Elle Jackson
Really great question. So I think the big number one to get out, and for me, is raising the age of criminal responsibility from 10 to 14 years. We know that the evidence base speaks really loudly on that, and that we're well-placed to legislate that reform in January when the new government is in. The second priority, I would say, is resourcing the Aboriginal community controlled sector to provide essential services and support to Aboriginal children and young people at all stages of the youth justice continuum. So from diversion right through to post-release, and also resourcing the recommendations of the Our Youth Our Way inquiry. And the third one I'd pick… it's always hard to pick these. But it would be with the new build of Cherry Creek that we know is going ahead, where custody is required for some young people, that those facilities should be small and close to a young person's home. So in the case of Cherry Creek. to be a small home-like facility with really well-skilled and trained staff to respond in a trauma-informed way to young people that's underpinned by evidence-based programs, and the broader view of the vision of the justice system for detention to always be seen as a last resort.
Sophie Raynor
And another tricky question for me those three reforms, is it realistic to expect those to happen in say, the first year of a new government?
Elle Jackson
I think absolutely it is. I think that raising the age of criminal responsibility, the evidence is there, we know what needs to happen, that can be changed easily and can have life-changing results for children and young people. We know the Victorian Government, the incoming government can commit the essential funds, Aboriginal community controlled organisations to provide support to their communities. And again, the same with Cherry Creek, that investment in that as an evidence-based facility with well-skilled and well-trained staff, which requires investment in staff and in that team, we know that that Victorian Government has the capacity to do that as well, that needs to be a priority for any incoming government.
Sophie Raynor
And we were talking before about how Cherry Creek will open in 2023, and if it doesn't, it'd be very early in 2024. So it's sort of the next 12 months that we're thinking about. And you know, it's not… we're not asking to completely overhaul or redesign that facility. It's just the opportunity. You're staffing that facility already. Pay careful attention to your staffing levels, your stuffing mix, the qualifications and experience of your staff, and make sure that staff have the resources and training and support that they need to do the job that young people require of them.
Elle Jackson
Absolutely, definitely. And that actually, the potential of that facility is to have the vision for youth justice, reimagined and realised and set in the culture of that centre. And the culture being about one of support and nurturing and guidance and one that actually prepares young people to never to return, you know, through exactly that all those things, evidence-based programs, transitional support and investment in staff.
Sophie Raynor
Yep. And every everything that you've just explained to me that Jesuit Social Services is asking for in our election platform, which is a very neat way of sort of turning this conversation back to the election and to the fact that this podcast episode will be published on the Wednesday immediately before the Saturday election. So I guess I wanted to ask you, you know, with the as people are listening to this conversation, it'll be just a couple of days away. I wanted to ask: did you in your in your professional capacity, or in your personal capacity, have a message for Victorian voters ahead of the election this weekend?
Elle Jackson
I would say… vote with your hearts, and vote for the Victoria that you want to live in, with equitable opportunities systems and funding in place to make sure that we can all reach our full potential.
Sophie Raynor
Thank you Elle for your time today. I'm going to link that election platform in the notes for this episode. And you can also find it at Jesuit Social Services website. Thank you, Elle.
Elle Jackson
Thanks so much, Sophie. Thanks for having me on podcast today.
Sophie Raynor
That was Elle Jackson speaking to Worth A Second Chance about what Victoria’s next government can do to build a stronger youth justice system.
Worth a Second Chance is a community campaign from Jesuit Social Services. We’re calling for a more fair, humane and effective youth justice system – and we need your help. Learn more, and join the campaign at worthasecondchance.com.au
Thanks to Elle Jackson for speaking with me today, and you can find new conversations every second Wednesday. My name is Sophie Raynor, and this was Worth A Second Chance.